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[ISSUE] Looting from MY kill SHOULD = looter flagged to ME

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Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:51:00 - [1] No. Fighting and then taking are TWO SEPARATE OFFENSES/AGGRESSIONS. It's fine as it is now. Loot stealers should only be flagged to the true owner of the wreck, the victim, regardless on how many Privateers and their alts claim it should be different.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.21 15:57:00 - [2] Edited by: Matrix Skye on 21/05/2009 15:59:14 And I just have to add it's so hypocritical to see so many "pvp-ers" whining on how their "hard work" and their "time spent" goes poof! Carebears get laughed at for saying such things, but somehow it's different for these brave young hearts, eh? The hypocrisy from you reaches new levels. Congratulations. And wow, look at all the privatears in this thread. Was an email sent out to come support this thread with mains AND alts? lolprivatears
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 11:46:00 - [3] Originally by: Kailen Thorn lol, you sir, are a tool. But of course I am. I'm telling the truth. The truth hurt you. And that made me a tool. Amirite? Quote: firstly carebears get laughed at cause they compain about everything and anything which remotely effects them. We are only asking for minors fixes which should have been sorted long ago. Another case of "if I complain it's fair and not a whine. If you complain it's a whine and you should L2P and can i haz your stuffz noob?". [Yawn] But of course Privatears' whines are fair and never fueled by self interest. . Quote: Yes, our time and hard work is valuable for us to survive. We do very few other activities to gain money, and thus we need the loot to sell on and survive. From your awesome record there, 60 losses, between your ibis and your pod. I can see you awesome at what you do. Seem like one of those who steal stuff from our loot and make your money off our hard work. And yet another fine and fair post by a selfless privatear thinking about the "well-being" of the game as a whole and not just his interests... Not. When you grow older you'll understand (hopefully) to be consistent with yuour beliefs and understand that either everyone's time and hard work is important or none, but atleast you'll be consistent and be less hypocritical. But I'm thinking not. And yes, my alt is used to bust gate camps. Does it upset you that a bully is bullying you? I'm sowwy. Quote: Now go run along to somewhere else to cry and make me write more than what i planned to, oh yea, and grow some balls to post with your main, -.- Oh noes! You mean I don't have e-balls? I'd like to have a pair of e-balls. Where could I get some of those? Do Privatears have e-balls? So like, do you get all teh sexes with a pair of big e-balls? I'll tell you what. Why don't you post with your real main :). I mean your REAL MAIN self. No hiding behind avatars :). Name, address, number... You're not a coward, are you?
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 15:47:00 - [4] NO U! Fake edit: This thread needs more teers. <== see what i did there?
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 17:14:00 - [5] Originally by: NickSuccorso I don't pay for, play, or post with my accounts to make sure that you're having fun. Frankly, I'm pretty sure you must have fallen and broken your head since you're actually whining about people wanting to make it so they get the most fun out of the game they play and pay for. Funny you should say this considering that when a carebear plays to play HIS style of game he's accused of being selfish/greedy/idiotic/[insert Privateer rant here] but when it's YOU well, that's just acceptable now isn't it . You're just hypocrites and I'm calling you out for what you are while having some fun at it. Don't get mad at me for telling you the truth. Quite frankly this thread needs moar teers. They fuel my ship. Don't hate the player, hate the game, 'bro'.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 18:11:00 - [6] Please dont call me broken head and then laugh at me . That makes me angry. So back on topic, where can I find these illustrious e-balls? Are they part of a COSMOS event?
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 18:23:00 - [7] Originally by: NickSuccorso When did I complain about other people wanting to maximize their own fun, broken head? You don't know much of your own history, Privatear. I suggest you ask around what Privatear was/has been all about. Quote: There you go again, lumping everyone into a single ready made mould. That's poor arguement technique, broken head. I'm lumping Privatears into one sigle mold. You're a Privatear. If you don't like or don't agree what Privatear stands for then perhaps you should look for another alliance? Otherwise don't get mad when your alliance is called for what they are. And stop calling me 'broken head'. Seriously, it's making me angry.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 19:02:00 - [8] Playing the mature card now are we? :) OK, let's see how long it lasts before your alliance degenerates it into a smack 'U n00b U quit!1!'. And explain to me why the current mechanic is 'broken'. If you agressed or attack someone why would that automatically make you the owner of their possesion? Just because you attack someone and managed to kill them doesn't mean you somehow legally own their stuff. Eve isn't a prize-fighting game like Counterstrike. Eve is more real in the sense that you can agress and you can steal from someone else. Loot isn't handed down to you because you dueled an opponent and won the tournament. The possessions still belong to the victim UNTIL you steal them. But you HAVE TO STEAL IT FIRST. It's more realistic and it's what makes Eve so special and different from other MMOs. It's a cruel world even for the cruelest of the cruelest.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 19:07:00 - [9] I also would like to add that Eve is a vicious cycle where the predators also become prey. And it's more fun that way. You could be the baddest killhog out there, but then a low-down dirty scoundrel comes along and dogs you just like you dogged your prey. It's what Eve is all about. Sure you'll get mad when you get dogged. It's natural. And the scoundrel will laugh at you just as you laughed at your prey. And in the end no one likes to be dogged. But it's what Eve is all about :).
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 20:01:00 - [10] Originally by: NickSuccorso No, the prize is up for grabs to anyone who can grab it. Nobody is saying that this shouldn't be the case. And if anyone does, than they're ****ed. What people are saying here is that they'd like some way to legally (per concord) attempt to discourage the vulture from the picking scraps. Is it reasonable that being a pvp loot thief has absolutely 0 risk and great rewards? What you say here doesn't make much sense. You admit that the loot should be up for grabs but then you add that you'd like to discourage other players from picking it. You can't have it both ways because you're not the owner of the loot UNTIL YOU STEAL IT. But you MUST steal it first. Now if what you'd like is for any loot stealer (including the aggressor) to be blinky to everyone else including bi-standers this makes a little more sense. And then the aggressor is opening up himself to becoming a target himself for STEALING loot, which is a whole separate offense and rightfully so. This I could agree with. Quote: That's a very valid point until you see that now I have to bring an extra guy along with my gang (putting another ship at risk for the vague possibility of him being able to serve his purpose in the gang), or sacrifice an existing part of my gangs dps/ewar/logistic etc in order to have him play space vaccuum (again putting someone in harm's way for the vague possibility of having him serve his purpose). Do you really expect that to become a valid profession in Eve? Do you really believe that this is a fair balance of risk and reward for the hunters, or the hunted? You invalidate your point as soon as you lock yourself with the mentality that everyone in your gang NEEDS to physically engage in DPS/EWAR/etc. You're opening yourself up to loot thieves. When you pick up the loot that makes you a loot thief and you don't blink to anyone else BUT the owner of the wreck. So why would a bistander blink red to you if you haven't picked up the loot yourself? Like I said, I think it's better if ANY loot thief picks up the loot he can be aggressed by anyone. Quote:** I would agree with you on this, except that you can not truthfully say that it is balanced game play. You need to be put at risk if you're going to pull from the wrecks of others in the scenario we're discussing. And no, being flagged to the victim doesn't always matter. Besides, the guy just lost his ship. But there IS risk to the loot stealer. He is being flagged to the rightful owner and his corp members. If the victim chooses to do so he and his corp members can hunt down the loot thief and engage him. Now I'd be willing to bet the victim would probably welcome loot stealers to steal his loot just to not give you the pleasure of taking it but that's a whole different story now :P. And it is a VALID MECHANIC. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't fair. You have to look at combat and stealing as two separate actions. You can PVP someone either through a war, or whatever. And then you can also choose to steal their wreck, a totally separate action which will cause you to agress the true owner of the wreck.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 20:16:00 - [11] There IS RISK TO THE LOOTER. What's so hard for you to understand about this? The looter is being flagged to the owner of the wreck as it should be. It p***es you off that someone else is beating you to stealing the loot and therefore being flagged to the owner, but that is not a reason to ask CCP to change the mechanics in your favor. The system is fair as it is now.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 20:19:00 - [12] Originally by: The PitBoss @ Matrix Skye: Simple risk -VS- reward ... As it stands the looter has NO risk in looting the ship AND reaps ALL rewards .... What EXACTLY is so hard for you to understand ? or are you bumping my topic with your flawed arguments out of the kindness of your heart ... Like The Jackhammer stated ... your NO SUPPORT is noted .. please move to CAOD to continue your TROLLING And now we're back to personal attacks and insults. I knew Privatears wouldn't last long in a conversation. Your ADD gives you away every time . Anyway... NO U!
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 20:23:00 - [13] Edited by: Matrix Skye on 22/05/2009 20:27:41 Dont be idiotic, Mr. Jackhammer. If the victim happens to have a replacement ship in the system, OR FRIENDS nearby, as you yourself admit he should have, then he IS a threat. Now if the victim CHOOSES not to persue that is a call for HIM to make, NOT YOU. Now if your argument is that the victim doesn't have friends/corp or doesn't have PVP ships and that the thief is just taking advantage of the situation (the fact that the victim is careless/weak/nonPVPer), please explain to me how you yourself aren't taking advantage of that very same situation by attacking the victim.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 20:28:00 - [14] Originally by: The Jackhammer Go away already ... Answer the question: Now if your argument is that the victim doesn't have friends/corp or doesn't have PVP ships and that the thief is just taking advantage of the situation (the fact that the victim is careless/weak/nonPVPer), please explain to me how you yourself aren't taking advantage of that very same situation by attacking the victim.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.22 21:30:00 - [15] You are going round and round in circles. I'll point out your flaw once again: Privatears attack a target, you gank it and then some. Fair enough. Target could have had friends, corpies, bigger ship, etc. In the end it's the victim's fault for not defending back. With me so far? It's no excuse that he was alone or that he's just a miner. In your opinion the risk, although practically non-existent, IS THERE. Agree? That is the Privatears' defense, so you should agree with this so far. Now, a "vulture" comes along and ALSO takes advantage of the victim's inability to come back and protect its loot. And your take on it is that THERE IS NO RISK? There is the SAME EXACT RISK that YOUR gank squad took, no more no less. It's just you want to be able to attack the vulture because you feel the defenseless target that YOU YOURSELF attacked isn't able to defend itself. If that's the case, then might as well make it so that even if you're at war if you attack anyone in high sec, at war or not, you become flashy to everyone, meaning global timer for you. But of course you wouldn't agree with this because what you really want is just what benefits you and you alone.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.23 03:50:00 - [16] Originally by: The PitBoss You're centering this ISSUE about WHO proposed the change AND not the mechanic that is being talked about ... No, I'm pointing out the flaw as to why your reasoning is wrong. You claim the risk 'practically' is non-existant because the victim now has to dock and get another ship or call corpmates to defend his loot. But that is how EVE works. Theoretically, when you gank a miner in an asteroid field he COULD bring corpmates to defend him against your gank squad. Theoretically he can fit his barge with guns to fight you. Theoretically, he can come back in a PVP ship to fight you again. But PRACTICALLY that rarely happens. BUT THE RISK IS STILL THERE, isn't it? So now you come along and ask CCP to change a mechanic based on practical risk when your entire defense against you ganking noobs is that there is a theoretical risk. When it suits you, you use theoretical risk to defend your position. And when it suits you, you'll use practical risk (or the real risk) when it suits you. This, my friend, is double standard. Quote: Your 'NO Support' is duly STILL noted .. please leave the thread Mr. Pitboss, you may be the boss of.... pits, I guess? But you're not the boss of me. You posted a thread in a public forum where it's open for debate, even for those that disagree with your views. Mr. Pitboss, you'll have learn to accept that if you want post your ideas here :) You have a wonderful nite! Sincerely, Matrix Skye <3 <3 <3
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.24 12:59:00 - [17] Originally by: spinarax Dear Mr. Skye, it seems that your whole argument revolves around your hatred towards Privateers. That's sad. BTW, this issues doesn't only effect us, FW for example could greatly benefit from these changes. You're spinning the issue again. And you keep avoiding the question. You claim there is no risk to a loot stealer. So then allow me to ask you again. What is the risk to a gang that catches a miner or missioner (whether it be a wartarget or out in lo sec) in an asteroid field or deadspace? And compare your answer to this quesiton: What is the risk to a loot stealer that steals loot from a wreck that doesn't belong to him? If you answer these questions sincerely and honestly you'll notice that either for both you point out practical risk or for both you point out theoretical risk.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.24 18:16:00 - [18] Originally by: The PitBoss You attack a target you're at war with ... you've spent your time tracking them down ... you attack them ... you're running the risk of losing YOUR ship ... Probing a target down does NOT put you in practical risk and you KNOW it. :). That's virtually non-existent risk. The only risk is you losing your time. Now IÆm not saying youÆre wrong. But what IÆm saying is if youÆre going to claim practical non-existent risk IS risk then stop saying that loot thieves have no risk, because they do :). Quote: Many a times I've attacked a target 1v1 and got in over my head and lost my ship Even assuming that you jump on a miner or mission-runner 1v1 YOU WILL HAVE the upper hand. If you donÆt then youÆre doing it wrong . Mission ship or mining ship RARELY has scrambler/disruptor. So if youÆre losing ships to them many times then wow, youÆre either full of lose or sh. Choose one. Quote:** In empire ... all 3 of us in a field ... victim is in a pod victor is in a ship loot thief is a ship What exactly is the loot thief's risk .... Ah yeah now i see it ... he risks having his feelings hurt because i dont thank him for taking my reward for my hard work And here you just make it very clear that you have a problem with non-practical risk with loot thieves. But you donÆt have a problem with the non-practical virtually non-existent risk in you attacking a miner or mission runner. This is very hypocritical of you. Mind you Eve is a game where even if the risk is non-practical it still is valid no matter how improbable it is. For example gate camps. YouÆre familiar with these as you run them occasionally :). Sure, there is the risk that a war target will call for reinforcements and they will make it on time to save him from the impending doom of your gate camp. But practically that RARELY happens. Yet the risk is still there. Just because the victim chooses not to come back to defend HIS wreck (not YOURS) doesnÆt mean the risk isnÆt there. And you definitely canÆt get mad because the loot stealer got to the loot before you did. You can fix this problem easily, as said before; get a dedicated looter. Problem solved. If youÆre too lazy or too unmotivated to loot or assign a looter, then you donÆt deserve that loot anyway. Very simple.
Matrix Skye Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.05.25 16:35:00 - [19] Originally by: The Jackhammer Edited by: The Jackhammer on 24/05/2009 21:17:39 Originally by: The PitBoss In empire ... all 3 of us in a field ... victim is in a pod victor is in a ship loot thief is a ship What exactly is the loot thief's risk .... THIS I'm sure that mission-running ship or mining ship had a real good chance at popping your PVP gank-squad

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